Remove Bengt Holst From Copenhagen Zoo

Kontakt forfatteren af dette andragende

Dette debatemne er skabt automatisk af underskriftindsamlingen Remove Bengt Holst From Copenhagen Zoo.



2014-02-12 21:48

Skriver man under på denne indsamling beviser man bare at man ikke har forstået noget som helst.... OVERHOVEDET
S.L. C.

#527 Dyreplageri eller dyrevelferd???

2014-02-12 22:26

Hva er egentlig greia med dyreparker egentlig??? Drepe dyr som er i overflod.......?? Hvor mange andre dyr dreper dere i løpet av et år? Om dyr formerer seg så har ikke dyreparker plass til dem??? Så legg ned hele zoo om dere ikke jobber FOR dyra !!!


#528 Re: Dyreplageri eller dyrevelferd???

2014-02-12 22:27


#529 Re: Dyreplageri eller dyrevelferd???

2014-02-12 22:29

# 527: SLC - Dyreplageri Eller dyrevelferd??

Hvorfor forandres teksten når den er lagt inn her ??????


#530 Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-12 23:35

#525: - Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

- har hørt den om at 'faktorernes orden er ligegyldig', men i denne sag er det absolut forkert at gøre det onde imod et uskyldigt væsen, når man meget nemmere kunne have gjort det gode! Er der ikke i din begrebsverden noget der hedder retfærdighed som du kunne supplere din ordleg med, hva?


#531 Landsbytosser

2014-02-13 08:06

Nååå... Det er her at landsbytosserne samles nu om dage.


#532 This is why the killing of Marius was wrong:

2014-02-13 09:19

In the following I have tried to sum up the essence of the extensive debate that has been running lately in order to address the many misguided views that has come from the opposition (i.e. the people who agrees with the recent killing of the young giraffe Marius.)

(This is written in English so the readers from the international community also can participate. Please excuse if the are some misspellings etc. - English is not my first language.)

1. The main argument from Mr. Bengt Holst and his like has from the beginning been race purification and genetic maintenance within the Giraffe population. (How far this idea stretches beyond Giraffes would be interesting to know – does it include humans also?)
For starters the argument has a very distasteful ring to it and immediately make one recall the sick ideology and atrocities made by the Nazi regime during WW2.
Why do many people despise those ideas? The reasons are simple:
Every body wants to live – also the unwanted, handicapped or genetically impure. It is the very foundation of survival and thus the basic rule of nature which we all must accept and respect. Therefore if people like Bengt Holst wants to play God and decide who is worthy to live and who is not they go against nature itself.
Further more: There are nobody on this planet that will ever fit the specified race hygienic standards than the specifier themselves and thus it is egoism in the most extreme ice cold form. The specifier argues for a genetically cleanup and by that no 'impure' organisms can exist and thus the world will be a good place in their minds. A good, sound and just world (according to them) where nobody gets their chance to live if they do not fit into the program! (There ought to be a red warning light flashing now but for some people it is plain and simple logic. One of them is obviously Bengt Holst)
In the Marius case the direct consequence was termination after 1.5 years of life since he didn't fit the desired genetic profile. Other zoological gardens offered to take him and give him a full life which always should have the highest priority. They even promised that his genes would not 'mess-up' the specified 'pristine' gene pool, but this was not allowed by Bengt Holst even though it made perfect sense and would not jeopardize the 'pure bloodline'.

Conclusion: There was no justified reason for the killing of Marius giraffe other than to satisfy a sick scientific urge to cut open and dissect a perfectly healthy animal. No important new knowledge was gained by this doing. Only a few dumb ignorant spectators got to see something that they could have seen on photos in a book.
The reason for the illogical and arrogant decision to kill Marius is apparently incomprehensible but there are reasons which I will speculate on next.

2. Why are so many younger animals executed in zoological gardens every year?
In Copenhagen zoo it is approx. 30 animals per year according to Bengt Holst himself. Imagine how many it is in all the zoo's in the world...
One reason could very well be that baby animals sells tickets – plain and simple!
It is a solid fact that the zoological gardens exploit the event when a baby seal, monkey, tiger or giraffe is born. The zoo's press secretary eagerly invite television stations that willingly participate in their hunger for a light and easy digestible positive stories to round off their evening news. The infant is displayed to the public unaware that it is cynically used in a devious money making scam. But remember, the scam only goes on as long as it attracts parents with children. Then after a while the baby animal grows up and does not seen so cute anymore even though its a fine, beautiful and healthy beast. At that point the zoo management has a final use for it. Some 'ingenious bean-counter' in the zoo has figured out a business opportunity that can't be passed by – public execution to feed the blood thirsty psychopaths in every population (this part was left out by Cph. Zoo but probably considered). However, the 'brilliant' idea does not stop there. The poor animals body can also be cut to peaces so the an autopsy can be performed, on a Sunday of course, so all the children can get their first lesson in how to deal with genetically unwanted living beings. These children can then be the next generation that enter the biology study and continue the 'good' slaughtering deed in the name of race purification.
Finally the leftovers from the animal can be used as food for the carnivores in the animal prison which incidentally is the only thing that make any sense at all since a poor cows of horses life in this way will temporarily be spared.
To top it all off a memorial plate in brass probably will be placed in the zoo's garden in remembrance of the heroic 1.5 year old Giraffe or other animal that gave its life to science. (Excuse my irony and sarcasm but I think these people are so morally and ethically way out of line that they are fit for sociopathic treatment.)

Conclusion: It can by no means be morally or ethically justified to kill any young healthy animal for any reason. And that goes for all animals including cows, pigs, chickens and human beings.
Yes, humans are also just an animal. A rather sophisticated one with all the devious abnormalities that follows, but never the less an animal. Furthermore a very bloodthirsty one that has multiplied into over 7 billion compared to for instance only 400 Sumatra tigers. We, the humans, are the main problem of this planet. We exploit, pollute and generally rape this beautiful Earth while acting like God himself deciding who of the few other animals are allowed to live and who must die. We start wars on the basis of stupid religion, resource shortage, hunger for power etc. and completely fail to see that we and our attitude are the only problem. Nature has regulated itself perfectly fine until we came about. Now we convince ourself that nature can not cope without us. We are like the two flees sitting on the back of an elephant arguing who owns it.
As you maybe can see it is us that need to change our ideas and attitude before it is too late.

3. But how should the zoo be able to feed the carnivores like tigers and lions if no other animals must be killed?
Well, maybe it completely wrong to have these mighty animals prisoned in small iron-bared cages in the first place. They belong in open land or huge forests where they can hunt for food themselves and live the life they where designed for by nature. Zoo's are man made artificial environment that can be directly compared to circuses where animals are imprisoned and displayed for one thing only: The amusement of the animal called homo sapience with no regard for the psychological welfare of the displayed being. Just take a trip to the zoo and look at the cats there. They wander restlessly back and forth in there cages, grinding deep paths in the soil along the iron bars obviously dreaming of a life beyond their prison.

Conclusion: Zoo's are like rarity cabinets belonging in the 18th century and should have been phased out a long time ago. One of the debaters on this website wrote that after he saw wild animals in their natural environment on the African savanna or Indonesian rainforrests he could not enter a zoo anymore to see the misery displayed there. This was a very sane observation and one we should all think about and act upon.
On the short term zoo's like the one in Cph should be decommissioned as fast as possible. New large scale parks should be established like 'Knuthenborg safari park in Denmark or 'Long Leat' near bath in UK or Kruger national park in South Affrica and many more. The parks economy should be guaranteed by the state since it is the state and thereby us all who have allowed and decided that wild animals should be kept there. It is every citizens and guests duty and responsibility through tax and admission fee to care for the animals within the park so that the animals within should get the best possible care and the longest possible life.
On the long term national parks should be established on a much greater scale than today. They should be protected by UN and wild animals should only be kept there to ensure their natural way of life.
You might think this is a wild illusion or a crazy fantasy, but so was the ending of the USSR, the law against slavery in USA, the turnover of the South African apartheid regime, the ideas and doings of Gandhi etc.
So, do not loose faith! Wonders can happen and has happened when people really want them to. It may take a long time to get there but with at steady pressure of legal means and sensible arguments we will get there eventually.

I hope, with this contribution to the debate, that those who do wrong will try to think different and that those who think as I do has gotten their faith strengthened. It is not the an ice cold business managers ideas that should govern a zoo. Nor the misguided eagerness of an aggressive and enterprising scientist. Both of those kind of people are like computer-controlled robots with no feelings, remorse or consciousness and it is these kind of types who has created much of the evils of this world. In some extend they are necessary, but nowadays they have gained way too much power and influence. It is therefore time to look for a new attitude towards life in all aspects.
The killing of Marius giraffe was a sad event in a sea of wrong doings which got many people up of the chairs and into the debate. Let's all continue to argue on his and all other animals behalf so the killing of him was not completely in vain.

I only wish well.


#533 Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-13 10:06

#525: - Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!


I dyrenes verden æder dyr andre dyr for at overleve, men vi mennesker kan selv vælge om vi vil gøre noget der er ondt. Vi har muligheden for at vælge og mon ikke at de fleste mennesker mener at hvad der er ondt er også forkert !



2014-02-13 10:07

Burde man ikke hellere gå efter at få lukket diverse Zoologiske haver i verden?


#535 Re:

2014-02-13 10:10



2014-02-13 10:26

s t o p


#537 Re: GIRAF

2014-02-13 10:55

#88: giraffen rasmus - GIRAF

Det er da virkelig kontruktivt det du har skrevet der....


#538 Re: This is why the killing of Marius was wrong:

2014-02-13 11:05

#532: - This is why the killing of Marius was wrong: well written and I totally agree....Thanks...



2014-02-13 11:23

#490: Jaja... - HELT ÆRLIGT

Havde du et kort øjeblik bare overvejet at bruge din tid på ikke at svare? Bare et sekund?

Natur- og menneskekenderen

#540 Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-13 13:08

#523: - Re: Fantastisk! "Du er knap værd at svare,"

nåååårh, hvor sødt - et ægte tabersvar.

Vi mennesker er - i modsætning til, hvad du måtte foregøgle dig - genetisk og mentalt gearet til at dræbe for at opnå en fordel. Studer småbørn i en sandkasse, de  har de sunde, oprindelige overlevelsesinstinkter: parate til at dræbe for at få, det de vil have.

Du er for tiden beskyttet af den for tiden eksisterende civilisation, men når den ikke kan beskytte dig - f.eks. ved at et par store vulkanudbrud udsletter al høst i verden i 2-3 år og det sner selv midt om sommeren, som det er sket flere gange i historisk tid - så får vi at se, om du lægger dig til at dø, eller om du helt naturligt dræber for at overleve.




2014-02-13 13:11

Men vad spelar det för roll,det är ju bara ett djur? Nu måste väl djurparkena ha möjlighet och avliva djur när dom tycker att dom behöver det, bara dom gör det smärtfritt.

#542 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-13 13:14

#533: - Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk! "IDIOT"

Et ægte tabersvar - uden rationelle argumenter bliver der kun skældsord til overs.

I Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement er du helt nede i bundskrabet, tit-tit


#543 Re:

2014-02-13 13:17

#1: -

Er det ikke personforfølgelse det underskrift indsamleren har gang i?

Det er faktisk ikke lovligt!!


#544 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-13 14:18

#542: Naturkenderen - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!


på tide at du roer deg ned.....

ha en fin dag videre...


#545 Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-13 16:24

#540: Natur- og menneskekenderen - Re: Re: Fantastisk!

Vi må ikke håbe du selv lever efter disse såkaldte " genitiske og mentale" instinkter , for at opnå fordele i livet !



2014-02-13 18:42

Gemeine Mörder/Schlachter .. und das vorm Öffentlichkeit...Grausam .. Grrr !+?+! :/
Natur- og menneskekenderen

#547 Re: Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk!

2014-02-13 19:29

#545: - Re: Re: Re: Fantastisk! : "Vi må ikke håbe du selv lever efter disse såkaldte " genitiske og mentale" instinkter , for at opnå fordele i livet !"

Hvorfor skulle jeg ikke leve efter samme instinkter som andre mennesker?

Forskellen på mig og flertallet af underskrivere på denne ulovlige personforfølgelse er, at jeg er ærlig nok til at erkende virkeligheden.

Nature, red in tooth and claw, f.eks. at søde, nuttede huskatte, kæledyr, dræber flere end 1.000.000 søde, små danske pipfugle hvert år og henimod 15 millioner andre søde, små danske kræ.

I USA er tallet mere end en milliard kære, små pippere "Domestic cats kill many more wild birds in the United States than scientists thought ... Cats kill more than one billion birds each year"

I the United Kingdom: "Domestic cats are lethal hunters, killing at least 275 million other animals a year in Britain, a report showed today."

Siden giraffen hvad-dens-navn-nu-end-var blev aflivet på en overmåde human måde, med føde i munden og uden angst for døden, hvor mange uskyldige børn er i den mellemliggende tid blevet brutalt dræbt i den syriske borgerkrig, i dødsangst og ofte under voldsomme smerter?

Hvad har i storbytosser (hvoraf halvdelen forresten er fra Asien) gjort for at redde disse børn?

Intet! fordi en giraf er død. Kan det blive mere abnormt? jeg tvivler.


#548 Re:

2014-02-13 20:38

#1: -

Ja. Alle os som skriver under her bryder os ikke om jeres metoder. Og jeg sætter ikke mine ben der igen.

Det er ikke sådan nogen zoo som vi har lyst til at komme i. Det er en fabrik. I køber dyr og slår dyr ihjel og køber nogen flere. Det er bare en fabrik og I har ikke hjerte for dyr. Vi vil meget gerne have at der bliver ansat folk i zoo som har hjerte for dyr og som ikke bare skal have en fed løn, og lave barbariske eksperimenter og fabrik.

Jeg læste oven i købet at "Børnene synes at det var sjovt og spændende, de blev ikke kede af det"

Det passer ikke! Børn bliver kede af det!! De bliver også meget præget af de voksne. Jeg vil ikke have at I præger mine børnebørn sådan.

Vil I lave tema uge "kom og vær med - slå dyr ihjel i zoo, i denne uge slagter vi hallal". Så kan vi vænne vores små kære børn til deres barske fremtid! Hvorfor ikke se og få det gjort. Det gør vi i zoo!!

Synes I det er fed reklame?



#549 Re: Re:

2014-02-13 20:59

#548: Margrethe - Re:

Til alle jer der forsvare Bengt og at man skal bruge disse metoder i zoo.

Det er ikke sundt for børn at zoo vænner dem til, at dyr ikke har nogen værdi!

Skal alle os som er imod de metoder, forstå på jer at I synes at vores børn skal lære at dyr ikke har nogen værdi og at vores børn skal vænne sig til barske offentlige ritualer som udføres offentligt i lande som bruger barbariske afstraffelses metoder?

Skal vi også forstå på jer at I gerne vil have lavet om på vores dannede kultur???

Vores børn bliver afstumpet når Zoo bruger sådan nogle metoder. Det vil jeg IKKE HAVE. Det er ikke svært at forstå.

Det undre mig at det tager meget lang tid for jer, som ellers laver lange "objektive svar", at I ikke fatter hvad I laver om på ved vores kultur og ved vores børn. Det her handler ikke kun om "pip pip og indavl". Sæt jer ned og tænk jer om. På forhånd tak.



2014-02-13 21:01

Girafslagteren bør fordømmes. Hans Engell har gjort det. Pia Kjærsgård ligeså. Og han er formand for Dyreetisk Råd!. Det er jo ikke rigtig klogt hvad han finder på. En måbende og uforstående omverden ser på! Fyr ham.